Saturday, July 24, 2010

An Evening At The Improv with Ergun Caner...

James White posted this last Wednesday night. The clips are taken from Ergun Caner speaking at Stand for Truth Ministries, California Christian Apologetics Conference, September 22, 2006. You may need to watch in "full screen" to be able to read the comments.



Yes, it's more of the same. But, knowing what we now know about Ergun Caner, and seeing and hearing him say things we just know are not true, you have to ask yourself why Norman Geisler and others are saying things like, "...out of a couple thousand sermons, nearly twenty books, and hundreds of media interviews, the relatively few mistakes are trivial by comparison." Trivial, Dr. Geisler? Watch the video again, and ask yourself if Ergun Caner wasn't intending to mislead by his remarks.

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27 comments:

Mark | hereiblog said...

H8R!

;)

threegirldad said...

Rats -- Mark beat me to it...

Jeff B said...

Quite the misstatements. Amazing to be sure, but not nearly as amazing as those who continue in their support of Caner.

Robert Warren said...

Wow...this thing just keeps getting worse and worse.

Bennett Willis said...

Has there been any video posted since the February 25 "apology?" We have had some reports of his addressing some meetings--things that would normally appear on YouTube. I was curious as to whether EC's mentioning of his childhood in Turkey, etc, has been removed from the talk or if he is still doing it?

I suppose that if the embellishments have been removed that this is indication of some sort of recognition of guilt--or at the least, recognition that saying things that have been shown to be fables is a bad idea. It tends to make you "honest" when there is the possibility that someone might stand up and say, "What did you just say?" Of course you have to be pretty bold (or confident that people will be polite) to go where someone might shout, "Where did you grow up?"

But maybe the years of improv have made him confident he can handle it.

Bennett Willis said...

http://www.frcaction.org/vvs-webcast

You have to slide down the list of speakers. This is a repeat of many of the usually embellishements. The date is probably not since February.

Bennett Willis said...

After some looking around the web site (http://www.frcaction.org/vvs-webcast) I found that EC is an invited speaker for the 2010 meeting (in September, I think)--but not yet confirmed.

If he takes out all the stuff that is not so, either he will have to find a lot of new things to talk about or his talk will be a lot less than last year's 25 minutes.

The Squirrel said...

Not only have I not seen or heard of any new postings of Caner "sermons" anywhere, but Caner has made a concerted effort to get folks to pull things that were already out there.

In The Caner File I linked to messages from a 2007 Ohio State Association of Free Will Baptist men's retreat. Those messages are no longer available at the website.

But, we are told, by Giesler and others, that Caner has done nothing wrong... So, why's he hiding? It now looks like Caner is not teaching at Liberty University this fall, even though he is still a professor there.

Makes one wonder...

Squirrel

DE123 said...

Is it possible that some organizations are taking down the Caner clips because they are embarrassed by the whole situation and don't want anyone to happen on their site and listen to the lies? Probably not all the stuff is being removed at the request of Caner and/or LU.

The Squirrel said...

DE124:

That is possible, however Focus on the Family told me that Caner and LU had asked them not to make recording of their broadcast of his 2001 message available for sale. Also, the associated press reported that, "Since questions arose about contradictory, he changed the biographical information on his website and asked friendly organizations to remove damning clips from their websites. But the questions didn't go away, leading to the Liberty investigation."

Squirrel

Bennett Willis said...

I listened to the Focus on the Family mp3 file on the 2001 talk yesterday. It is still around. I connected through a link from a web site on the EC issue--a new site for me. I have no idea where it was now--but it is there, somewhere. The Internet never forgets. :) But I sure do. :(

DE123 said...

Squirrel...I found this testimony of Caner at the Ohio 2007 Free Will Baptist Convention. Wonder why they didn't remove this too? I haven't listened to it yet so maybe it doesn't contain anything, um, interesting.

http://www.newroadnews.com/ohfwb.html

DE123 said...

Hope this isn't a duplicate as signing in was hanging up.

Squirrel...I found this testimony of Caner at the Ohio 2007 Free Will Baptist Convention. I haven't listened to it yet. Maybe they didn't remove this one because it didn't contain anything *interesting*. Link is on left near Caner's photo.

http://www.newroadnews.com/ohfwb.html

Bennett Willis said...

Posted on TF's Armstrong thread: A little off the subject but a connection between two of the characters in this little play was noticed. Mark on Watchdog's thread reported this link: http://www.watchman.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.staff You will find Tim G and EC there. This helps me think that I might understand a bit more.

The Squirrel said...

Bennet:

I checked and the download link to the Focus on the Family broadcast still works. However, the show is not listed in the archives, & they do now offer cd's of that message for sale. It's still there, but all the signs pointing to it have been removed.

Thanks for the link connecting Tim Guthrie and Ergun Caner. Clears up a few things, doesn't it?

Squirrel

The Squirrel said...

DE123:

Thanks for the link. I downloaded the message and will give it a listen sometime soon. They may not have removed it because none of the "Caner Hater Blogs" linked to it?

Squirrel

DE123 said...

Squirrel.....I listened to the speech and I think I've heard it before in snippets. Maybe it is in some of the Youtube videos MoKhan made. At least there's a place to link to it now. It almost looks like an old web page that they don't realize is still up because a lot of the links don't work on it. It has a different URL than the pages you had linked to.

The Squirrel said...

DE123:

Having listened to as much Ergun Caner as I have these last few months, I can tell you that, for the most part, if you've heard one Caner message, you've heard them all... Same stories, same jokes, same 'shtick' every time.

Squirrel

DE123 said...

Squirrel, I attend a church in the Lynchburg area. The sermons are verse by verse and very very good. This pastor can preach circles around Caner. The more I listen to Caner, the more I realize how he talks about himself, criticizes everyone else for not sticking to preaching the Bible but doesn't do it himself. It's nearly all entertainment. When I first moved here in '06 I decided to hop on James White's website which I hadn't done in a long time. When I saw there was going to be a debate between him and Caner I was excited and planned to go. Boy, was I disappointed when I checked the website just one more time before I was leaving to go to TRBC and found out the debate was canceled. I never really read all the reasons but I knew without a doubt that Caner had chickened out. Now that I've listened to Caner online, I realize he does not have the skills or the intellect to take on White. Caner is a big talker. If you know of any speaking engagements Caner gets in and around the Lynchburg area, let me know. I could go and let you all know what he is talking about these days.

Bennett Willis said...

TG is very upset that someone might conclude that he has some sort of relationship with EC because their names are listed together on the Watchmen web site. I have no idea why this should upset him, but it has.

I have apologized for drawing that conclusion. It was relatively easy to do. Maybe some others might try it. :)

DE123 said...

Bennett,

I would still think that it is a connection. It is at least a commonality between the two, which is still enough to cause someone to want to defend rather than look at the facts.

I doubt it is the only reason he defends Caner, but it could be A reason.

If he insists it is not I guess we need to take his word at it.

I was absolutely astounded to hear Caner's speech (I think at a Calvary Chapel in CA) on the Dividing Line. He is doing exactly what pathological liars do...blame others for the lies he's told. He's the victim. Very typical of pathological liars. I listened to another sermon online today...wish I could find it now. But he's speaking somewhere as Charles Billingsley gets off stage. Ergun talks about wearing spanx which I think is inappropriate. It looks to me like the musicians behind him exchange glances like "oh brother". I'd like to see it again, but can't find the video. Another interesting thing to note--the pianist behind him appears to be a former music director at Thomas Road who was fired this spring for adultery. He's no longer allowed to serve. (from what I hear, I don't go there) Wonder why Caner is on the schedule for speaking at a music conference this fall at Thomas Road?

The Squirrel said...

Bennett Willis said...

"I have apologized for drawing that conclusion. It was relatively easy to do. Maybe some others might try it. :)"

Try drawing the conclusion? Or try apologizing?

:o)

Squirrel

DE123 said...

Interesting. Caner is on the speaking schedule at this music conference at LU in September. http://www.refreshworshipconference.com/

I could be wrong, but I think Stuart Townend and others from Kingsway music are Reformed. That should be interesting...Reformed dudes teaching Reformed lyrics at LU. I am thinking of going because I am interested in some of the workshops on technical stuff.

The Squirrel said...

DE123:

I just looked over the website of that conference. I wonder how up to date it is. It still has the pre-February 25th Caner bio...

I doubt that Ergun will be speaking there when the end of September comes around...

Squirrel

Bennett Willis said...

Ambiguity error...My bad.:) However,

At this point, I'll gladly see either data based conclusions or sincere apologies. I am NOT particular.

I noticed the disclamer. :) You mean that you are not a part of a grand conspiracy??? I'm SO disappointed. I thought that the Montana people all tended in that direction. :)

Along that twisted line, a memory: I often listen to late night radio (Art Bell, George Norie, etc). I've been listening to it since Larry King was the host--and remember an interview King did with Judge Pressler about the SBC. But one of the nights that it kept me awake (rather than helping me go back to sleep) was a night or two after the Oklahoma City bombing. Art was convinced that we were going to have a militia revolt. The callers that night were almost all militia types saying that McVeigh had a good idea but might have overdone it just a bit--maybe. It was eye opening. I've always felt that McVeigh sort of "sank" the militia movement (suddenly they saw the logical outcome of their philosophy) but it may be coming back.

Warren Lotter said...

EC just spoke at a Veritas Conference in Colorado (Calvary Chapel South Denver) on 7/24. Speakers included Geisler, Strobel, Dembski. My wife attended and I unfortunately missed it.She knows there's a contoversy but not the particulars. There are no recordings available.

DE123 said...

I've visited the Calvary Chapel in Lynchburg several times. Nice church and the pastor a good preacher. I looked on their website and can't find any sermons by Caner...don't know if he's ever visited or not. I really can't imagine Pastor Troy Warner approving of Ergun Caner at all.